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Maniphest T257

Requests regarding Turnpike Wiki
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Description

Greetings,

Would it be possible to enable RevisionDeletion - the deleterevision and the deletelogentry userrights - on https://turnpike.shoutwiki.com for either administrators and/or bureaucrats? Reason being that I would like to be able to remove grossly inappropriate vandalism such as this and this from the page history and system logs.

Additionally, would it be possible to tighten the threshold for autoconfirmed status so that instead of having every registered user account be autoconfirmed, the system can require something like Wikipedia with 4 days and 10 edits before being autoconfirmed? This would also help reduce vandalism and help make semi-protection more effective, so that the number of pages that are fully protected (meaning that only I can edit them as I'm the only admin) are much fewer.

Ping @jack who handled my previous request.

Thanks in advance.

Event Timeline

Brianna82 triaged this task as Normal priority.Jul 13 2019, 5:59 PM
Brianna82 created this task.
znotch190711 added a subscriber: znotch190711.Jul 14 2019, 6:57 AM

I am a former Miraheze user, I do not think that it is possible. Maybe it could be restricted to SW staff.

Brianna82 added a comment.Jul 14 2019, 5:47 PM

I don't know who or what "Miraheze" is/was or what that has to do with this request.

The changes that I'm asking for are definitely possible - my question is if there is any global policy etc. that would prevent them from being implemented. RevisionDeletion is already available to ShoutWiki Staff Members, but I'm asking for it to be added to bureaucrats and/or admins like it is on Wikipedia. Also, I know that tightening the autoconfirmed threshold is a simple change of a configuration variable, but I don't think that the LocalSettings.php files for ShoutWiki are publicly accessible.

znotch190711 added a comment.Jul 14 2019, 7:08 PM

I think it needs consensus from all ShoutWiki users to have the supressrevision right on Independent wikis.

Brianna82 added a comment.Jul 14 2019, 7:28 PM

Except that I'm not asking for revision suppression. I'm asking for revision deletion. There are two different things.

(P.S. as it appears that you aren't a staff member (in fact, you just registered your account today), please don't comment if you don't have any definitive answers).

znotch190711 added a comment.Jul 14 2019, 8:37 PM

Fine.

Brianna82 edited subscribers, added: Restricted Project; removed: znotch190711.Jul 27 2019, 8:22 PM

@jack bump!

jack added a subscriber: lewiscawte.Jul 29 2019, 6:43 PM

ShoutWiki is indeed not consensus-operated and individual wikis' settings generally speaking need consensus only from the existing community (if any); "global consensus" just isn't something that's a thing over here.

As for the actual requests:

  • extended RevisionDelete rights aren't usually given out, though we (staff) are more than happy to process any and all oversight requests. cc'ing @lewiscawte for clarification/confirmation.
  • tweaking autoconfirmed requirements is not just possible, but highly recommended! Let us know what requirements you'd like for autoconfirmation (either here or privately via email to support@sw) and we'll implement those. Combined with things like AbuseFilter, we've had great success with actual, real requirements for the autoconfirmed status on Jedipedia, the Finnish Star Wars wiki with our one long-term abuser.
Brianna82 added a comment.Jul 29 2019, 6:49 PM

@jack thanks for the response.

However, I am not asking for oversight (suppression) rights - I'm asking for standard RevisionDeletion and Log deletion rights.

For reference, what I'm requesting access to is equivalent to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:REVDEL
What you're describing as only being available to staff (with which I agree) is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:OS

Two different, but similar things.

lewiscawte closed this task as Wontfix.Jul 29 2019, 6:54 PM
lewiscawte claimed this task.

They're the same thing. They use the same feature. We're not giving out rights to them, and we won't be "cleaning up" logs and history in future, unless there's a leak of personal information or libel as stated in the system message for RevisionDelete.

Brianna82 reopened this task as Open.Jul 29 2019, 6:56 PM
Brianna82 removed lewiscawte as the assignee of this task.

I'm sorry, but they are not the same thing.

RevisionDeletion allows an administrator to hide individual revisions and log entries from regular users, but other admins can still see them and undo the actions.

Oversight (suppression) hides the content from everyone including administrators and bureaucrats, and admins and crats can't undo the action.

lewiscawte closed this task as Wontfix.Jul 29 2019, 7:01 PM
lewiscawte claimed this task.

No. Oversight is the group that remains at Wikipedia assigned the RevDel permissions. Oversight was an extension that used to leave no trace that was replaced by RevDel. All RevDel now leaves a trace and can be restored, all this information is on the WP:OS page you linked - however, this does not matter as we are not granting that right to users.

You're most welcome to drop an email to support@shoutwiki.com and request your wiki be deleted if it is that much of a sticking point. Please do not re-open this task, RevisionDelete is not up for discussion.

Brianna82 added a comment.EditedJul 29 2019, 7:04 PM

But... while all RevDel leaves a trace, there are two levels of RevDel. The "lower level" can be restored by anyone with the deletionrevision right, which by default is assigned to the sysop group (as on Wikipedia). The "second level" can only be restored or viewed by users with the suppressrevision right, which is what the WP:OS is.

@jack please comment further before this spins out of control

Brianna82 added a comment.Jul 29 2019, 7:51 PM

Okay, this rather harsh and unfriendly communication from a staff member already painted a bad picture. Now, we have this, which is totally unacceptable and amounts to global users with "superpowers" overriding a local community/admin action. That's two strikes. One more and I leave. This is not the behavior that I expect from the staff team from a service like this.

Brianna82 mentioned this in Unknown Object (Maniphest Task).Mar 9 2020, 5:10 PM